On this particular day, after being out and observing the unrest happening around Ziguinchor, I walked past Issa, who invited me to join him for tea together with Assane, a Jakarta driver, sitting on the ground against his bike. I had a long conversation with the two men, discussing aspects of life in the Casamance and Senegal. At this point, I had already become well acquainted with Issa, although it was the first time I met Assane. Although Assane was aware of my research and agreed to join in interviews after having my research explained by Issa and myself, he was hesitant to provide answers at first throughout the talks with Issa and me. When I asked about the situation in Senegal concerning the political unrest, he was a bit hesitant to answer, giving vague answers without saying much. This visibly annoyed Issa, who quickly interrupted Assane and told him to answer my questions honestly. Assane agreed but just to be sure, I reemphasized that his participation was purely voluntary and anonymous and that he did not have to talk to me if he did not want to. Assane confirmed that he would like to talk to me and we carried on our conversation. He only recently became a Jakarta driver, having bought his own only a month ago. Before doing this job, he studied at the local university in Ziguinchor, having dropped out before finishing his Bachelor’s thesis. He said that his thesis would have covered the “Génération Kalashnikov”, the generation that was born during the conflict. I pointed out that he and I would have very similar research in that case, to which he agreed and he became more open in his posture and way of talking. I asked Assane why he did not finish his thesis if that was the only thing keeping him from graduating, to which he replied that his professor got arrested and that he thought it would not be a good idea to focus on such a potentially sensitive topic. I suspect that this is why he was a bit reluctant to answer my questions at first.  I once again asked if he would be willing to tell me given his reasoning. Assane said that he did not mind at all and we started to talk about the conflict. 

Assane said that the conflict in the Casamance is the longest ongoing conflict in Africa, dating its roots back to 1921 but only becoming violent in 1982,

He said that there was a legitimate struggle for independence in the 20th century as the region is very different from the rest of Senegal, both from a historical and environmental point of view. He reinforced this point by saying “look around you”, “regarde autour de toi” and showing the environment with his hand, indicating that this was not similar to the rest of Senegal. He pointed out how during the 1970s and 1980s, a lot of non-Diolas moved to the Casamance with support from the army. He made this point by looking at the names of the people here, saying

He said that the ancestors of these people were not born here. Their parents might have been born here but they do not know where their grandparents came from. Therefore, Assane said, they find themselves in a complicated position as they are local to the region but their blood is not from here, they are Casamançais and not Casamançais at the same time. But this could all be traced back to the time of colonisation, with the French adding the Casamance to Senegal. He also commented on the creation of The Gambia as a sovereign nation, saying that it was an poor choice as well as the people in the Gambia are the same as in Senegal and only difficulties result from it.

He asked me if I went to Ziguinchor by road from Dakar, which I said I did not. He said it was a shame and was genuinely disappointed that I did not as that would be the “true” way of travelling from Dakar to Ziguinchor and that I would be able to see what a terrible trip it would be.

He continued by telling about the N4, the Trans-Gambia highway from Dakar to Guinea-Bissau, how that road was in a terrible state and how the border crossings caused massive delays during the trip, making it hard for the average traveller to leave the region or to bring goods in. 

He also talked about the rebels in the regions around the borders, saying how they have been funded by Dakar. I said that this is something that I have been hearing more often as well and asked him why he thought that this was the case. According to him, having rebels in the region would be an easy excuse to keep the region down and that it was a good way to get developmental aid from abroad and having NGOs, money and resources that will not show up for those people they are intended for. He took a particular example of the Women’s Organisation of Casamance in Ziguinchor, saying

He called out the corruption that he perceived in the government but in the NGOs as well, saying that if they receive 10 million dollars in development aid, 9 million will disappear and only one will be put to the use the funds were intended for. Assane said that it was in the interest of the government and the NGOs to keep the conflict ongoing. It should be noted as well that Assane, as well as Limane, referred to the conflict as une crise, a crisis, and not directly as a conflict. I asked him that if the government and NGOs did not decide to help, what should be done according to him to improve the region. Without thinking the question over, he answered that the real solution would be to finance the industry and not developmental aid. He said that there is enough in the Casamance but that they will never develop industry in the region, a decision that was made on purpose to keep people out of jobs and away from money. He also said that this was the case with the closure of the port and the airport, further limiting economic development of the region. I asked if it was true that the prices in the Casamance for many products are more expensive in the region than elsewhere in Senegal, to which I got the answer

He then told about the embargo again and how there is barely a way out of the Casamance for many. Building on this idea of the embargo, I asked why he thought that the government put an embargo on the region. He thought the question over for a minute and said that, in the case that the Casamance would develop itself economically, the question of independence would likely resurface. The Casamance has so much to give to Senegal in terms of resources, wood, petrol, fruits such as mangos, papayas, coconuts, bananas, oranges, rice,

Assane told me about the missed potential in the Casamance and rice and other foods get imported from elsewhere and how the locals do not produce their own food anymore. Children go to university but nobody does the trades that are needed anymore, such as agriculture. And in the end, the university students are also out of a job here.

I wanted to continue asking questions about the topic of the conflict or crisis but after this was said, an older man joined our small circle around the teapot and the conversation died down. Although the man was very friendly, it was clear that Assane and Issa did not want to address this topic around him and we changed to other topics. We started talking about Europe and Assane asked me if the Netherlands was the place where they filmed the show Vikings. I said that it was not but it was not far from the region where they did. He said how much he liked the show and that I looked like I would fit right in it, pointing to my facial hair. He asked Issa if he had seen the show, which he didn’t. Assane became quite enthusiastic about it, saying how it was about “barbarians”, “des barbares” who sailed around Europe pillaging other countries. From there he started asking about how much of it was truly accurate to Europe and European history and the conversation drifted to topics unrelated to the research.

“How is it possible to have a country inside another country?”

“Comment c’est possible d’avoir un pays dans un autre pays?”

“The Casamance is under embargo”

“La Casamance est sous embargo”

“the prices are outrageous here!”

“les prix sont exorbitants ici!”

“the Casamance is the hand that feeds Senegal”

“la Casamance est la main qui nourrit le Senegal”

“you should never forget the history. You always have to look at what came first”

“il ne faut jamais oublier l’histoire. Il faut toujours regarder ce qui venait avant”

“there are many individuals called Diop or Faye and who say that they are Diola, although those are not Diola names”

“il y a des nombreux individus qui s’appellent Diop ou Faye et qui disent qu’ils sont Diola, alors que se ne sont pas des noms Diola” 

“they organise conferences… Yes, we have done this, we have done that… We are busy managing intense discussions about this topic… And then they go home”

“ils organisent des conférences… Oui nous avons fait ci, nous avons fait ça… Nous sommes en train de gérer des discussions intenses sur ce sujet… Et puis ils rentrent a la maison”

“We have been at war for 40 years, if they wanted to end it, they would’ve done so a long time ago”

“Nous sommes en guerre depuis 40 ans, s’ils voulaient le finir, ils l’auront fait depuis longtemps”

Next: Market talk with Chérif about current politics in relation to the conflict